L400 Air Conditioning System Flushing Advice Needed

Stewage

Member
I've just had my compressor rebuilt by Don at Discount Auto AC. The problem is he found a lot of metal shavings in it, which means there are metal shavings in the system. So... I need to flush it.

My question is, can I flush the condenser, or do I need to replace? I know newer ones need to be replaced as the vanes are so small they can't be flushed, but I don't know if a 1995 Delica is in the same boat. If I need to replace, does anyone know where I can find one or an aftermarket one. They are like fairy dust and very expensive, so I am trying to decide if it is even worth the trouble. And to make matters worse, I have the dual AC, so there is a rear one as well.
 
I think AC is the bugaboo of Delicas. If the AC is not functioning they are undriveable in hot weather.
So you have had your compressor rebuilt This is a good place to start.

These vehicles are OLD, with front and rear AC there are a lot of seals. There is an O ring in EVERY connection. The OEM ones are black and are 25 YEARS OLD. In an AC system you are trying to contain a high pressure GAS. It will exploit the smallest leak to escape. Your compressor has failed this is a good sign of a leak. In an AC system the compressor and expansion valves are lubricated by oil traveling through the system with the refrigerant gas. When a leak develops the gas leaks out, rate depends on size of leak, we are talking nearly microscopic here. As the quantity of refrigerant leaks out it's ability to circulate oil is reduced. Lack of oil for lubrication of compressor is generally cause of compressor failure. Not the only possible cause but most likely.

When you replace compressor you are going to have to recharge the system. If you have not fixed the leak(s) repeat failure is very likely. Therefore while you are working on it and the system is empty I recommend replacing all of the accessible O rings. We have the same van. Mine is green too. When I bought mine compressor was growly. I added some refrigerant, compressor was unable to develop any pressure. A couple days later laying under van I saw oil drip hanging from an AC line fitting near transmission. Not a good sign, must be a leak. I bought compressor from Ali Baba. $100 for part $114 to fly to US from China. Only took six days after my payment cleared. Before installing my compressor I replaced all of the accessible O rings. This a big project. My biggest issue was getting vinyl bumper skin off. The four bolts from the wheel wells were rusted to their captive nuts. I bought a Dremel and cut the heads off of the bolts after I spun the first one and could see it was tearing the vinyl. I studied the manual and followed the pipes on vehicle. Eventually nearly all O rings were changed. The only ones external of the AC cases I did not touch were the small lines to the front and rear isolation solenoids because fittings were corroded and I figured I would be breaking things, corrosion can plug leaks too! With the O rings changed and compressor and new receiver dryer installed I wanted to verify system is gas tight at high pressure. I charged it to 250 psi with nitrogen and let it sit 24 hours. It leaked, a 50 lb. drop in 24 hours. To big to ignore. I studied some more, I had missed the O rings in connections under battery tray. Replaced those O rings, recharged with nitrogen again. This time minor pressure drop overnight, attributable to temperature differential over night. Now I was confident I could charge the system and it would not leak. I had another problem I have not addressed yet but it has been approximately 2 years now and system is still full, no bubbles in sight glass on top of dryer.

You asked about flushing condenser. Lets discuss that. Starting with the compressor. Gas flows from compressor at high pressure, up to 250psi on a hot day. from there to receiver dryer. This is a small aluminum bottle mounted on radiator core support between radiator and left headlight. There is desiccant and filter in this bottle. If you are LUCKY all of the chips from your compressors destruction wound up here. There are two condensers with front and rear air, one in front and one underneath body between transmission and sliding door. To see if there are chips in condenser I blow compressed air backwards through condenser, from outlet to inlet. I tied a white handkerchief to the inlet fitting to trap what comes out of condenser. If there are no chips just dirty oil be happy. If there are chips there are AC solvents that can be used to clean out condenser. I was lucky no chips in mine. Before installing compressor blow the discharge line out, again reverse flow, dryer to compressor. Again you can use handkerchief toe make sure it is flowing clean. There several places you do not want debris in the system. 1 compressor, 2 expansion valves ( very small orifices here, easily plugged) and the isolator solenoids. So far I have been blessed, no problems with refrigerant system after two years. I really believe that my time spent replacing O rings was well worth it. If you do not have a service manual GET ONE. Become familiar with it, Print the pages for what you are working on. This by no means exhausts the places you can have issues but it is a good start. The service manual has a system performance test that my van passed. My pressures and temperatures were very nearly exact to what the manual called for.

A word about O rings. The OEM O rings are black, likely neoprene. After 25 years they are old, can be dried up and shriveled. Corrosion can have eaten at them and their mating surfaces in the pipes. There is a new material that is green better suited for R134a. I just looked up material, it is hydrogenated nitrile. O Reilly Auto Parts sells a large assortment of green O rings for about $20 that fits almost all of the fittings. I remember there were a couple sizes I needed not in assortment. I recommend a NAPA store for those. I polished any white corrosion found on aluminum connections with a green scotchbrite pad.

A word about dryers: I sourced my first one from Coombs Country Auto, a little pricey. Since then I have spent some time in wrecking yards her in Ca stripping parts from Monteros and learning what is similar to Delicas. I believe that a 2004 Montero uses the same dryer as the 95 Delica. Match yours up at a Napa store and see if I am correct or not. Much cheaper.

Good Luck. Kevin
 
this is a great post!! I am having a real bugger of a time trying to find the Oring size for the rear attachment of the AC line by the exhaust. I have tried 3 times now and nothing from the green Oring kits seems to be the exact size that is needed. I have looked on Epic Data and Amayama and cannot seem to find and SIZE information for those two Orings in the rear near the exhaust. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

I have a 1995 L400 2.8L TD
MODEL: PE8W HSEXF 2
 

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I can't thank you enough. This is a fantastic post that I am sure many will benefit from.

One more question, looking at the rig, the only tough (I said tough, not tedious - it all looks tedious!) part seems to be access to the front condenser (I haven't put the compressor back on yet). I believe I need to pull the bumper, and I won't be removing the condenser, so technique wise anything else you would recommend?

Again, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the detailed response.

@delicadjjapan - I haven't gotten their yet, so I'll look for a response here!
 
Definite slow going. Feel free to bolt compressor on with old O rings in place and see what happens. I know what my experience has shown.

Green AC O rings: I know that some of the sizes needed are not in the large O Reilly assortment. I used to work for Ford, as a professional I know these O rings are precious, never throw new ones out. I found some in my NOS Ford stock. I was going to fast to log the part numbers. I would recommend you take the odd sizes and see if a local Napa store can match them up. Some stores have a great selection. Failing that see if a Ford dealer can help you out.

Replacing condenser O rings: Bumper removal is required. My van had a lot of rust underneath, more on the right side than the left. I think it was parked over a saltwater gutter. There are 4 6mm bolts that go through the wheel well into captive nutz. Mine were so rusted the whole works spun tearing my vinyl bumper skin. I only damaged one and stopped. I bought a dremel and cut heads off of bolts. Get lots of cut off wheels. Slow going, they are in no mans land, but it works. Dremel has a light on it. I recommend a 10mm 1/4 drive wobbly socket with a long 10'' or more extension.

The condenser O rings may be the most critical to replace. This is the highest pressure part of the system. While I was at it, I noticed the wires going to condenser fans at motor were looking like they were waiting to break off. I epoxied them to motor with a large blob of glue no problems.

Kevin
 
I'm going to start today - probably with the rear condenser first because that is an easier access. I have the compressor (rebuilt by Don at Discount Auto AC) and have already replaced the front expansion valve and drier previously (got it from Delica Parts USA), although the system was never recharged after that so I am not too worried. O-rings were replaced when I did those jobs.

I've got a few questions:
1) Did you flush the system with a solvent at all? If not, and I do find metal in the condensers, would you recommend flushing the entire system (not just the condensers) with solvent? And if so, is there any specific technique (i.e. do I need to unhook the lines going to the evaporators and blow them out separately?)?
2) If no chips are present in the condensers and you don't recommend flushing with solvent, should I blow out the other pipes, or just the one from the compressor to the receiver drier?
3) Nitrogen - any advice our sourcing it and how to charge the system with it?

Thanks very much again!
 
On ac system rebuilds I use a solvent flush from Napa auto parts. It goes in a pressurized can (charge it with shop air) and I back flush each condenser looking for metal with a white shop towel on the other end. I then flush each line separately. You do not need to flush new components, especially the receiver/drier. When the whole system is clean, has new orings, and all components are ready to go, I make sure I oil each section with the proper amount of oil. I then vacuum the system for an hour if vacuum holds on the gauge, I charge the system and hope for the best! You can pressure test with nitrogen, but refrigerant works if you’re confident ;)
 
Interesting - I pulled some of the lines off last night - the condensers to start with - and fired air through them (no solvent). No metal coming out the other side, but here's the rub, just air. No fluid, dye, anything. I think I found my issued, the AC system had been run dry. I suspect it was serviced with low or no oil in it, there for it worked for me (for awhile) until it trashed the compressor.

I'm going to clean and pressure check to be safe, but I think I at least found the culprit.

BTW - does anyone know the reason for two condensers?
 
The oil left system with the refrigerant, wherever the leak is/was. When I recharged my system I used refrigerant oil with dye. Most dryers do a good job of filtering chips. I am not a fan of flushing chemicals because they are chemicals. Their compatibility with other materials (oil) in system is not guaranteed regardless of what the label says. You have confirmed the system likely does not need flushing with the blow test, nothing came out.

Reason for multiple condensers, increased cooling capacity for the High Pressure gas to be cooled down to change state from gas to liquid. In a dual A/C system there is more refrigerant being used. Another possibility, The expansion valve meters liquid refrigerant into evaporator. Possibly the rear condenser being physically closer to rear expansion valve, ensures an adequate supply of liquid at the expansion valve. This is conjecture on my part. In general my experience has shown that Japanese engineers go the extra mile to build a better product, ie second condenser. Ford and GM vehicles with rear air only run a long liquid line to rear expansion valve.

Nitrogen testing vs vacuum check. A vacuum check will check for leaks from out side the system to inside the system. There is not a large pressure differential between 30" hg and 15psi, sea level air pressure. I have seen a cracked condenser pipe hold vacuum, ends of pipe being held together by atmospheric pressure. The ends of pipes blew apart upon charging, very rare. Rubber hoses sometimes seal same way. 250 psi nitrogen over 24 hrs. is pretty much a guarantee of no leaks. I bought an NO2 bottle from a welding shop for A/C repair and motorcycle shock refills. I know it is pricey. I am a tool junky. Possibly a motorcycle shop could charge it for you, bring your own gauge set. In a commercial shop there are time constraints that prevent this kind detailed work. When looking for leaks with nitrogen I use soapy water on lines and connections. There is no denying connections and hoses blowing bubbles.

When I do this kind of work I install compressor next to last and dryer very last to avoid its exposure to atmospheric moisture. I also fill compressor with oil at inlet port and turn it over with a socket on shaft until I see oil appear at discharge port. This way I know compressor starts wet, as gas is inserted it blows through system moving oil around.

One more thing re compressors. Delicas use a scroll type compressor, not a piston type. Rare on cars and trucks. I posted a video somewhere of a scroll compressor set up to run with one of the ends off to expose the innards.
 
I've already got the oil/dye to charge it with along with a plunger device off of Amazon. I am going to hopefully charge it in the next few days. I appreciate the advice on the compressor - I will certainly do that.

In regards to adding the oil - I have a copy of the service manual and the procedure talks you through charging, but it doesn't say when to add the oil. Should I do it before adding R-134a? Or split it up?

Your advice is fantastic. I sincerely appreciate it. I'm certain I'm speaking for the broader forum too.
 
I add oil to each component as I assemble (you will be oiling the orings at this time anyway)oil is migratory once system is charged
 
Great - what do you use to add the oil? I'm thinking something lie a syringe without a needle?

I also have this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VL8W76S - I should be able to inject the oil straight in, however I will follow both of your advice and get the oil into the system before buttoning it up.
 
Syringe is good or a very small funnel. I also have the oil tool you show, that is not going to get the oil to each individual component right away. The tool is good for when you vacuum down a system and want to add an ounce or two of oil to ensure lubrication. Do not over oil the system as that will affect the efficiency of performance ;)
 
I've got the AC compressor installed and the system buttoned up. It was leak checked and service. I'm happy to report it is running great.

I have been racking my brain on how it bled out. I didn't replace all the o-rings, but did do most and have inspected for dye and none has presented itself. Until... I pulled the low pressure cap off to check the pressure. Dye was VERY slowly bubbling out. I have a leaky Schrader valve. I wiggled it and it appears to have stopped, but I also know it is a matter of time It's slow, but it is an issue that needs sorting.

I was thinking of getting a tool like this: https://www.amazon.com/Lichamp-Automotive-R1234YF-Installer-Standard/dp/B07QVF2V2R/ - do you know the size of the valve for the Delicas (or are they standard)? Thank you both again very much - I know this thread will be useful to others in the future.
 
If it’s R134a then the Schrader valves should be a standard item. Sometimes they are bad or need to be reseated. Since you just charged the system, keep an eye on it for now
 
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