Alternator Fan belts flipping

[Nulla]

My alternator fan belts are flipping at the crankshaft pulley. I did some googling one of the cause maybe pulley alignment issue. I will check more closely tomm but visually i don’t see alignment issue. If i did see alignment issue how do you adjust alignment of the pulleys. Is it possible that it migth be fan belt tension issue? I am afraid to tighten the tension too much because i don’t want to mess up my water pump. I had this issue before i though i fixed it.

I do have alignment issue with the AC compressor pulley, you can see by the picture that the AC compressor pulley when to the power steering. I lost my power steering belt as a result. To align this i would have to move my AC compressor forward. Can this be done? My AC fan belt is not flipping. I will not install the AC compressor belt until i figure out how to align it.

All this happen after about 1500 miles of driving. thx

 

[sk66]

Did you buy the OEM matched set recommended last time?

 

[Nulla]

Did you buy the OEM matched set recommended last time?

Yes, those flipped also.

 

[sk66]

Well that sucks... it is possible that it is belt tension, especially since it was ok for 1500 miles. If so I would expect it to be due to the adjustment slipping or the belts seating (IDT that's enough miles/time for belt stretch to be an issue). In which case I'd be inclined to suspect the pulley where it is occuring; more for wear/correctness (groove size/style/wear) rather than alignment; because alignment will typically flip a belt very quickly if it's going to.
You are right that you do not want to over tighten the belts...

Alignment can be the installation of the pulley (i.e. how far it's pressed onto the shaft) or mounting of the unit (i.e. alternator twist due to mounting hole wear)... so how it is corrected varies. I haven't really looked into it, but I'm pretty sure the compressor/compressor bracket (or both) could be shimmed forward with washers (might require longer bolts).

 

[Nulla]

Well that sucks... it is possible that it is belt tension, especially since it was ok for 1500 miles. If so I would expect it to be due to the adjustment slipping or the belts seating (IDT that's enough miles/time for belt stretch to be an issue). In which case I'd be inclined to suspect the pulley where it is occuring; more for wear/correctness (groove size/style/wear) rather than alignment; because alignment will typically flip a belt very quickly if it's going to.
You are right that you do not want to over tighten the belts...

Alignment can be the installation of the pulley (i.e. how far it's pressed onto the shaft) or mounting of the unit (i.e. alternator twist due to mounting hole wear)... so how it is corrected varies. I haven't really looked into it, but I'm pretty sure the compressor/compressor bracket (or both) could be shimmed forward with washers (might require longer bolts).

I have a pulley misalignment issue. The crankshaft pulley has moved forward. The water pump, alternator and the power steering are all align with each other. The crankshaft pulley is forward by more than 1/4“. I think when i fix this it might also fix the alignment of the AC compressor.

Should i pull the crankshaft pulley out to see what is going on or should i try to push it back in by tightening it. Is there a special tool for this or should i just put it in gear and hand brake. Turning the crankshaft will not mess with the timing, correct? Thx.

 

[sk66]

I have a pulley misalignment issue. The crankshaft pulley has moved forward. The water pump, alternator and the power steering are all align with each other. The crankshaft pulley is forward by more than 1/4“. I think when i fix this it might also fix the alignment of the AC compressor.

Should i pull the crankshaft pulley out to see what is going on or should i try to push it back in by tightening it. Is there a special tool for this or should i just put it in gear and hand brake. Turning the crankshaft will not mess with the timing, correct? Thx.

I would definitely pull it... want to make sure the woodruff keys/slots are in good condition at this point.

 

[Growlerbearnz]

Plan to replace the pulley with a new one: the pulley should not move, ever. If it's moved it's either the bolt coming loose (as above, very bad for the woodruff keys and crank) or the pulley's outer ring separating from the inner ring (they're held together by rubber, which can give out after a while).

Here's a thread showing the correct way to remove a crank pulley. You have to use the threaded holes in the centre of the pulley, you can't pull on the belt grooves since they're only held on with rubber).

 

[Nulla]

I would definitely pull it... want to make sure the woodruff keys/slots are in good condition at this point.

Plan to replace the pulley with a new one: the pulley should not move, ever. If it's moved it's either the bolt coming loose (as above, very bad for the woodruff keys and crank) or the pulley's outer ring separating from the inner ring (they're held together by rubber, which can give out after a while).

Here's a thread showing the correct way to remove a crank pulley. You have to use the threaded holes in the centre of the pulley, you can't pull on the belt grooves since they're only held on with rubber).

Do you know where I can source this pulley? Is it used in other engines here in the USA. Thx

 

[sk66]

Do you know where I can source this pulley? Is it used in other engines here in the USA. Thx

I would think you would be getting pretty versed in this by now...

 

[Nulla]

I would think you would be getting pretty versed in this by now...

Agree now i just need to figure out how to source this part. Thx

 

[Nulla]

I would definitely pull it... want to make sure the woodruff keys/slots are in good condition at this point.

Plan to replace the pulley with a new one: the pulley should not move, ever. If it's moved it's either the bolt coming loose (as above, very bad for the woodruff keys and crank) or the pulley's outer ring separating from the inner ring (they're held together by rubber, which can give out after a while).

Here's a thread showing the correct way to remove a crank pulley. You have to use the threaded holes in the centre of the pulley, you can't pull on the belt grooves since they're only held on with rubber).

I pulled it i don’t see any abnormality. See pictures. Is it normal that the shaft where the pulley attached is only 3/8” long and the pulley is 1 1/16” deep. Do you think i should still replace the pulley. I found one on mega zip there would be no problem replacing it. The bolt was very thigh i don’t think it got loose.The rubber on the harmonic balancer don’t seem to be worn out. Tomm i will install the pulley and belts to see what the mis allignment looks like.

The thread you share on removing the crank pulley was very helpful. Thx

 

[Growlerbearnz]

The timing belt gear is installed backwards, which explains why your crank pulley is sticking out too far. The timing belt gear should have the recess towards the crank pulley:



(Ignore the big red arrow)


You can also see where the outer edge of your timing belt is damaged: that's because the lower gear is pushing the timing belt too far forwards, and it'll be rubbing on the outside edge of the cam and IP gears. I would replace the timing belt, just to be safe. You're going to have to remove it to turn the lower gear around anyway.

 

[Nulla]

The timing belt gear is installed backwards, which explains why your crank pulley is sticking out too far. The timing belt gear should have the recess towards the crank pulley:

View attachment 14046

(Ignore the big red arrow)
View attachment 14047

You can also see where the outer edge of your timing belt is damaged: that's because the lower gear is pushing the timing belt too far forwards, and it'll be rubbing on the outside edge of the cam and IP gears. I would replace the timing belt, just to be safe. You're going to have to remove it to turn the lower gear around anyway.
View attachment 14048

OMG! thank you. I am learning

 

[sk66]

OMG! thank you. I am learning

Wow... got lucky with that one!
With that little of the crank pulley and pulley bolt engaged I'm rather surprised it held together for this long... but it doesn't even look like it's damaged the key. New timing belt, and put back together correctly, you should be all set.

 

[Nulla]

Wow... got lucky with that one!
With that little of the crank pulley and pulley bolt engaged I'm rather surprised it held together for this long... but it doesn't even look like it's damaged the key. New timing belt, and put back together correctly, you should be all set.

Yes, I been running this way probably for about 7000 miles including 3 months in Baja California. This explains the problem i been having with belt noise etc.. I am not celebrating yet there maybe damages when i open the timing belt cover today. Meanwhile i have ordered the timing belt and all the belts. Will keep you both posted and thank you for your help.

 

[Nulla]

Took the timing cover out everything seems to look good. I align the timing marks and marked everything to get ready to install the the timing belt when it arrives around Oct 20. I am hoping that there is no damage when i take out the timing gear, don’t want to do that until the the belts arives. For now i will just wait for the parts to arrive. thanks

 

[Nulla]

Is there a trick to pulling the timing belt gear? Mine is a bit stuck.

 

[sk66]

Is there a trick to pulling the timing belt gear? Mine is a bit stuck.

There is a special puller in the manual, but I'm certain it is expensive and since your gear is installed backwards it probably won't work anyway.

I would use a puller similar to this, or this, or DIY your own crossbar.
Replace the puller arms with long inverted carriage bolts who's heads fit through the holes in the pulley (secured to puller crossbar with nuts & washers), then twist the puller so the heads hook the edges of the holes.
If you DIY your own crossbar you could just alternate tightening the two bolts to pull the gear off.

 

[Nulla]

There is a special puller in the manual, but I'm certain it is expensive and since your gear is installed backwards it probably won't work anyway.

I would use a puller similar to this, or this, or DIY your own crossbar.
Replace the puller arms with long inverted carriage bolts who's heads fit through the holes in the pulley (secured to puller crossbar with nuts & washers), then twist the puller so the heads hook the edges of the holes.
If you DIY your own crossbar you could just alternate tightening the two bolts to pull the gear off.

I looked at the drawing, is it correct that nothing is holding it in there? I will try the puller. What do you think of applying heat on the gear? Don’t want to damage anything.

 

[sk66]

It's a tight fit over the shaft and key, needing to use a puller is normal... you shouldn't need heat.