scot
New Member
Hello all!
I've been following these forums and learning for many months now (thank you for the wealth of knowledge and generosity!), but I've reached that point of my Delica journey where I need some direct help, myself, if you'd be so kind!
In short: I was trying to replace a glow plug and out came the hex and threaded body/casing, without the electrode and core. I found the core (rod) sticking up just above the head, but haven't had any luck removing it. Below I'll outline the current condition, what I've tried, and what I'm thinking of trying. Your input and advice is welcome!
Current condition
Based on some internet research, calling some local mechanics, YT videos, here are my ideas and scenarios I'm pondering. I recognize some of them may be pretty bad or incorrect, so I'm listing my understanding and assumptions...and I'm weighing safety vs cost vs time (the usual!)
As for what got me into this in the first place? Shortly after buying this beauty, I still couldn't start it without lots of cranking. I replaced the glow plugs a year ago and it worked great until half way through the first road trip. I'll obviously need to tackle this later, but wonder and will test if the glow plugs are left on too long by the automatic system, or even failed to turn off. Anyway, instead of the NGK 2161's (y-115r1) that I used before, I'm planning to use OEM's going forward, which I understand have a narrower, spade tip electrode.
I've been following these forums and learning for many months now (thank you for the wealth of knowledge and generosity!), but I've reached that point of my Delica journey where I need some direct help, myself, if you'd be so kind!
In short: I was trying to replace a glow plug and out came the hex and threaded body/casing, without the electrode and core. I found the core (rod) sticking up just above the head, but haven't had any luck removing it. Below I'll outline the current condition, what I've tried, and what I'm thinking of trying. Your input and advice is welcome!
Current condition
- This is on a 1991 P25W Super Exceed; no glow plug indicator on the dashboard (that I’ve seen); had some cold start problems before which, were resolved by replacing the glow plugs about a year ago with NGK 2161's. Then, cold start problems reemerged so I started to diagnose this by removing the glow plugs to inspect and bench test them, and ran into this situation...
- The tip (electrode) and core of the second glow plug is stuck in the head. As you can see in the below picture, the smaller-diameter core is just about flush with the glow plug hole in the cylinder head. Attached below it is the electrode, which I fear is swollen or melted/deformed or carbonized such that it broke upon trying to remove the glow plug originally.
- Below, I'm holding the threaded glow plug body/core and hex, which I removed and only then discovered the electrode and core were missing! It came out surprisingly easily and I didn't notice a "break"...alas!
- Below is the top of the glow plug that normally sits above the hex, which came out with the body/core (pictured above).
- Below is an electrode plus core that came from a glow plug that I successfully removed and then broke apart so I could understand what I was working with. Comparing with the photo above, this suggests most of the core is still in the head, but also how the electrode is probably pretty buried in the head.
- Below you can see the fourth glow plug which I removed easily but shows obvious deformation and was covered with carbon-crud, making me think the second (seized) glow plug could have been swollen or deformed as well. Meanwhile, the first and third glow plugs looked just fine!
- Twisting and pulling the core up and out with needle nose pliers. No luck.
- Pulling by the core up and out using vice-grips. No luck. Applied PB Blaster overnight and still no luck. Then tried (poorly) to use a pry bar to get additional leverage.
- Tapping the core back in with a hammer and punch. It took a surprising amount of force to move about 1mm down and following that, I still could not use a vice-grip and pry bar to get it back up and out. So, the core is now 1mm further into the head after this step.
- Thinking, and hoping, that the electrode was pretty stuck, I then installed the other three glow plugs, jumped them for 3s, and the engine started almost immediately. I drove it for about 30min, including up to 65mph down the highway, and it ran great.
- With the engine still warm, tried to pry with vice-grips. No luck. Sprayed some more PB Blaster.
- Took a time out to research, regroup, and write this post.
Based on some internet research, calling some local mechanics, YT videos, here are my ideas and scenarios I'm pondering. I recognize some of them may be pretty bad or incorrect, so I'm listing my understanding and assumptions...and I'm weighing safety vs cost vs time (the usual!)
- Continue to pry it out with vice grips. Maybe I'm not putting enough force into it? Is there a better tool or technique? I've seen valve grinding compound recommended to add friction.
- Remove the adjacent fuel injector and use an endoscope to see what's inside. This wouldn't solve the problem but may help me figure out what I'm working with and how urgent this is. However, I understand I'd need to replace some of the washers, which I don't have. Is there much risk or should I go for this? Since the van is somewhat functional now and I can still drive it to a mechanic, for example, I don't want to further complicate matters.
- Use a glow plug tip extraction kit, like the CTA Tools 7802. I'd try to drill the core into shavings, vacuum them out, leaving the electrode intact, tap it, then use a slide hammer to hopefully pull it out. Failing that, drill the core and electrode then try to suck pieces out through the injector and glow plug holes, but I worry the pieces will damage the cylinder. Maybe better would be to drill the core down, then punch it in and try to extract via magnet through the injector hole, but I worry it will still fall into the cylinder as I can't get a good understanding of this part of the head/cylinder and whether there's an injector cup to catch it.
- Remove the head and get it out. This seems like a bigger and longer job than I'm experienced for, but I'm sure a great way to learn. I could manage the time by changing some plans, but I worry about getting the timing belts on right. I've seen a well-documented post around, but may need a little more hand holding on top of that...
- Take it to a mechanic who works on Delica's. Let's face it, I'm learning as I go and enjoy that, but I also don't want to get in over my head too deep and end up replacing the engine. Right now, I'm in Salt Lake City, UT and after many calls, found RUSH Diesel who has worked on Delica's before, and one mechanic is from Costa Rica and apparently grew up working on them. Based on one call, they seem straightforward, knowledgeable, and friendly, and they'd try some of the less invasive techniques before removing the head, which would obviously get pricey. The second option and my regular mechanic, I'd take it to Kok at P&K Automotive in San Francisco whom I trust and know it's in good hands, but can I safely drive the 800mi there? Maybe the pressure will prevent the seized tip from falling inside, or maybe it will shoot out and cause some damage? Or, maybe there's a way to temporarily secure the stuck electrode--something like affixing a jack nut on the accessible part of the core? Or keep a small vice grip on it? Well, I was intending to go to SF about now anyway...but don't want to kill the engine doing so! If the mechanic removes the head, it will need to be resurfaced and I'll need to get replacement head gaskets, head bolts, and maybe a thermostat (? what else should I do while it's in this deep?) and these will take time to order from Amayama or CCA or someone else.
As for what got me into this in the first place? Shortly after buying this beauty, I still couldn't start it without lots of cranking. I replaced the glow plugs a year ago and it worked great until half way through the first road trip. I'll obviously need to tackle this later, but wonder and will test if the glow plugs are left on too long by the automatic system, or even failed to turn off. Anyway, instead of the NGK 2161's (y-115r1) that I used before, I'm planning to use OEM's going forward, which I understand have a narrower, spade tip electrode.
