D4BF engine trouble, suspect broken rocker arms?

Shamus

Shamus

Active Member
Hello friends,
Had a rather shitty day yesterday. Got 12 mile out of Portland and had to pull off the freeway with engine trouble. From reading over thread on others engine troubles, it seems like looking at the rocker arms is a good place to start, and check the timing belt for damage. I’ve never taken off the cover from the head before and I’m a little nervous to be honest, I don’t want to make my problems worse. Here is a video clip I had my wife shoot after we got off the freeway and I started it up to try and get help from Steven at Rising Sun. (They put this engine in for me in January) I hope I didn’t screw things up worse by driving it off the freeway, but it would have been really dangerous to stop where this started, now pull outs. Oh I guess I can’t post a video clip bummer.
 
Looking at the timing belt first because it’s the easiest to get to. Here’s some pictures. Please let me know if this looks right Please let me know if this looks right.
 

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Would be helpful of you could describe the problem. How it started, symptoms, etc. "Engine Trouble" is a bit too vague for anyone to offer any real input.
 
Hey detroadster I wish I could post video I shot of the engine running. It sounds like nuts and bolts tumbling in a dryer.
I’ve got the timing belt cover off and it looks like my timing is off from the pictures
 
Actually I’m gonna put the cover back on for now. It’s going to be over 100 here today and I need to read up more on what I’m doing so I don’t screw things up worse.
if y’all know of any previous post I can look at for guidance and be super.
thanks a lot.
 
Those timing marks are both one tooth off, but they need to be compared with the third timing mark on the crank pulley. If the crank pulley was lined up to the TDC mark at the time then yes, your timing belt has slipped a tooth.
 
Growlerbearnz said:
Those timing marks are both one tooth off, but they need to be compared with the third timing mark on the crank pulley. If the crank pulley was lined up to the TDC mark at the time then yes, your timing belt has slipped a tooth.
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@Growlerbearnz - If the timing belt has slipped a tooth the engine will run poorly but would it cause the "nuts and bolts tumbling in a dryer" sound he's hearing?
 
If the crank pulley was at TDC for those photos, then the injection is advanced which would cause a very loud diesel clatter. The cam timing is also advanced, which might cause the piston to hit the inlet valve but that's more of a rhythmic tapping. Even a single broken rocker will sound like a single repeating click that changes with engine speed.

I wouldn't run an engine that's making bad noises. A piston hitting a valve and breaking a rocker is easy to repair, but if that rocker then gets pulverised into glitter and pumped through all the bearings? That's a writeoff.
 
Really appreciate y’all’s replies. I know from read previous post you guys know what your talking about. I’ve got a couple hour before it get crazy hot here again today. I’m gonna open it up again and try and get a view of the bottom time mark. I’ll try to snap a picture of it. I’m good at doing other mechanical work on the van, I’m just nervous to try and play around with the time because I’ve never don it before. I did turn the engine over after I had gotten the cover back on yesterday. I shut it down immediately. Same noise happening. I turned to over hoping that maybe it wouldn’t come on at all and that perhaps this was an electrical issue. But that seems to not be the case. I’ll post pictures of all three timing marks in a bit.
Thanks again for the replies, as I feel a little out of my comfort zone doing this.
 
Hi guys, Here’s picture of the timing mark on the crank shaft pulley. It appears to lined up, the upper two are now not aligned. As I mentioned I turned the engine over yesterday, just to rule out it being an electrical issue. So now I think I need to remove the rocker cover to see if there’s damage to rockers or worse. Is there anything I should be aware of before removing the rocker cover? Torque valves in putting it back or anything?
 

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With the timing belt ruled out. I’ve removed the rocker cover (my first time doing so) and I’ve discovered my problem!! Broken rocker arms! See attached picture. Now I just need to contact my parts supplier, Rising Sun and get some on order. I’ve search the forum for post on rocker arms, but I didn’t find anything detailing adjustment, torque value and such. I’ll read up in the manual to see if I can find out more. If y’all know of post that might help me through my next steps of repair I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m thankful it’s the front two at least! I’m happy now that I’ve found the problem so now I can move on to fixing it!
 

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Holy sh*t!!!! So this isnt just a matter of slappign some new rocker armsn in and away you go. The million dollar question is WHY did they fail catastrophically? They dont just explode into bits on their own. One of the other guys with more experience will have to chime in here. To me, it looks like your valves hit the piston which in turn busted the rocker arms. But how and why? Any why did it only impact piston #1?
 
did you rotate the motor by hand at any point? I know I did while I was mating the transmission to the motor. From what I understand, if you rotate it backwards the timing can be thrown off...
 
dirtyrottenhoundrels said:
did you rotate the motor by hand at any point? I know I did while I was mating the transmission to the motor. From what I understand, if you rotate it backwards the timing can be thrown off...
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I haven’t rotated it by hand at all. I’d rather not play with the time at all, especially since it appears to be correct based on the crank shaft position marker.
 
detroadster said:
Holy sh*t!!!! So this isnt just a matter of slappign some new rocker armsn in and away you go. The million dollar question is WHY did they fail catastrophically? They dont just explode into bits on their own. One of the other guys with more experience will have to chime in here. To me, it looks like your valves hit the piston which in turn busted the rocker arms. But how and why? Any why did it only impact piston #1?
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That’s a great point, I hope someone smart than me has an idea about that! It’s getting a little hot out to work on. It’s 11:40am here in Portland and 86 out. I’ll be going inside in about 20 for the remainder of the day. Is it possible these were just crappy rocker arms? From the breaks the metal looks to be inferior.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the timing was out, is it possible the pistons bashed the valves, and that could have caused the issue on the rockers? Not trying to be a pessimist, but is it possible there is more damage including to a cylinder?
 
Crankshaft Culture said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the timing was out, is it possible the pistons bashed the valves, and that could have caused the issue on the rockers? Not trying to be a pessimist, but is it possible there is more damage including to a cylinder?
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Yes. Mashing the vale into a piston can damage the valve, the valve guide, and the piston. But if the timing is off enough for the intake and exhaust valves to contact the piston, I'd expect to see this on all 4. Not just cylinder 1. What's crazy is that this is a new engine.

@Shamus is your van a 5 speed or an automatic? if 5 speed, any chance you missed a shift recently and way overreved the engine?
 
Crankshaft Culture said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the timing was out, is it possible the pistons bashed the valves, and that could have caused the issue on the rockers? Not trying to be a pessimist, but is it possible there is more damage including to a cylinder?
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Hi Andy! I appreciate pessimism! From the view I have of the timing mark on the crank shaft it appears to be in alignment. But like Detdroadster comment, the real question now is why the heck these two rocker arms broke?
We were going up a grade on I-5 just before the exist for 139th in Vancouver, I was going about 90km when it happened. I didn’t turn off over drive for climbing the grade because it wasn’t that steep. I did a few min’s before going up another incline and turn overdrive off that. This engine was brand new out of the crate in January. Other than the install, this is the first time the timing belt cover and rocker arm cover’s have been off. I’ve put 4123 mile on it since than. Changed the oil once. I check the water, oil and transmission levels the night before and all check ok.
Something else to help maybe solve things, the coolant had pushed out into the overflow reservoir from the radiator might have just been from the heat on Friday when I broke down. Those are the only clues I have.
 
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