Purchasing a new engine

speedyquest said:

@Jgrant0553 - Not to start an argument, but instead as a way to spreading accurate and useful information, what have you seen specifically that has you believing the quality of the material used is lower quality?

Outside of that, in general it doesn't matter how good the quality is on your parts, if they aren't installed and maintained properly you will have failures.

Click to expand...

Just my personal experience and from what I have seen come through my shop. Personally the D4BF short block, that I ordered from a well know dealer, cracked after about 1,500 miles. The failure happened before the 6 month mark that the warranty covered. Of course when I asked about the warranty apparently it started when the vendor purchased the engine not when I purchased it. Most of the 4D56 blocks that I have rebuild have much better casting than the D4BF. Did I just get a bad engine, probably, but even the Hyundai heads seem to be of a much lesser quality than the original Mitsubishi parts. But this is already common knowledge.
So to avoid a argument let me resend my comments on the D4BF, they were just my opinion, and focus on the fact that whatever you decide to do with any engine gets a warranty in writing. It’s a lot of money that people are spending to totally get stuck with a possible dud. Thank you.

@Jgrant0553 - I think it's really important to point out that asking questions is not the same as disagreeing or questioning your knowledge or ability to discern quality. Instead I'm looking for knowledge. With the engine that cracked the block in 1,500 miles, what was the failure point? Did the engine get tore down and a specific failure found?

Yes the failure point was the block.
Every other component was fine and reused with a machined 4D56 block rebuild.
Been running great thus far. Just loooking at this forum alone I see head failure, turbo failure, spun bearings all on new D4BF. That along with my own experience with them seems to indicate they are prone to failure. Im sure your selling and installing these engines at your shop so I can understand your opinions on the matter.

Jgrant0553 said:

I'm sure your selling and installing these engines at your shop so I can understand your opinions on the matter.

Click to expand...

Are you referring to me? Because if so I don't own a shop, don't work on vehicles for a living, don't sell engines, and have no "horse in the race". I don't get why you feel like the only possible reason I could be asking specific detailed questions is that I have a point to make or have an ulterior motive.

I'm just a guy who likes these vans, values accurate information, and is curious. Again questions do not equate disagreement.

I appreciate the images and info about reusing all the other parts. It's so crazy that a block failure wouldn't include other damage as well. What part of the block is that?

speedyquest said:

I appreciate the images and info about reusing all the other parts. It's so crazy that a block failure wouldn't include other damage as well. What part of the block is that?

Click to expand...

paul said:

For anyone arriving now to this thread, we will start having D4BFs in stock again in 4-6 months. For newcomers finding this thread, we are the same people who run DelicaForum.com and arranged the previous group buys.

Hyundai D4BF for Delica L300 Engine Replacement

Click to expand...

Sorry since you posted them being available I made a assumption. That is the front of the block behind the lower case.

Different person, but I understand the confusion. Gotcha, well thankfully I'm not yet in need of an engine but I'll certainly keep that in mind for the future. Note to self don't ruin the block!

This conversation has made me very curious. Firstly I agree with @Jgrant0553 that the casting isn’t as good, but it's definitely not bad. In general, as I posted before they are definitely not the same quality as the original Mitsubishi engine. But that out of the way, it really concerns me the gravity of the problems that you’re describing. It also makes me very suspicious of where these other engines are coming from, and why the outcomes are so different from the ones we’ve imported and installed.

Before eventually increasing our order size substantially and ordering directly from Hyundai we spoke with some resellers and I have seen companies in China selling D4BF clones. I saw plenty selling knockoffs stand-alone blocks too. I wonder if what we’re seeing is some Chinese knockoffs being sold as OEM Hyundai parts?

Hyundai is definitely not Mitsubishi but it’s still a reputable OEM, we import a lot of parts for the Delica and I would say in general the Hyundai parts are “pretty good”. If the Japanese OEM is affordable, we usually go for that because they tend to be better. But the Hyundai parts are nothing like cheap Chinese parts, they look like and behave like OEM parts (because they are). We personally use both and we haven’t had problems ourselves or had a single warranty claim on parts we’ve sold from either manufacturer.

This makes me even more concerned that we may be dealing with a counterfeit problem.

Hey fellas, little late to the party here but just found out it seems I have at the very least a blown head gasket. I am debating engine rebuild or swap currently. I am in Vermont. Mechanic who diagnosed head gasket did say I have a lot of blow by in my low end…pretty sure he was talking about the engine Any further insight into this topic, not my low end but the rebuild or swap? Do you know of a rock steady rebuild kit for a 94 4d56 T? I am a handy guy with a long background in the trades, but certainly no significant mechanic experience. Is it foolish to even consider attempting the rebuild myself? I have some shop space I could use, am known to be meticulous, clean, and patient. Said when I bought this rig I wanted to learn…kind of typical in my life and experience I jump right in the deep end. This is a little different though I guess since I believe there will be a substantial bit of my time and money riding the line and the decision. Feel free to weigh in! …either way I go about this I’ll also be looking to replace radiator, coolant system, turbo, and any thing else you recommend while going this deep to save my ol’ gal Delilah( 94 l300 p 35w w/~200k km and a huge piece of my heart)

…damn, real shame those emojis don’t show up. Def think it may have helped highlight my attempted humor :-/
**old school

CaptDread said:

Hey fellas, little late to the party here but just found out it seems I have at the very least a blown head gasket. I am debating engine rebuild or swap currently. I am in Vermont. Mechanic who diagnosed head gasket did say I have a lot of blow by in my low end…pretty sure he was talking about the engine Any further insight into this topic, not my low end but the rebuild or swap? Do you know of a rock steady rebuild kit for a 94 4d56 T? I am a handy guy with a long background in the trades, but certainly no significant mechanic experience. Is it foolish to even consider attempting the rebuild myself? I have some shop space I could use, am known to be meticulous, clean, and patient. Said when I bought this rig I wanted to learn…kind of typical in my life and experience I jump right in the deep end. This is a little different though I guess since I believe there will be a substantial bit of my time and money riding the line and the decision. Feel free to weigh in! …either way I go about this I’ll also be looking to replace radiator, coolant system, turbo, and any thing else you recommend while going this deep to save my ol’ gal Delilah( 94 l300 p 35w w/~200k km and a huge piece of my heart)

Click to expand...

Just a head gasket isn't the end of the world... It can be done in a weekend assuming the head/block doesn't need machined.

CaptDread said:

Hey fellas, little late to the party here but just found out it seems I have at the very least a blown head gasket. I am debating engine rebuild or swap currently. I am in Vermont. Mechanic who diagnosed head gasket did say I have a lot of blow by in my low end…pretty sure he was talking about the engine Any further insight into this topic, not my low end but the rebuild or swap? Do you know of a rock steady rebuild kit for a 94 4d56 T? I am a handy guy with a long background in the trades, but certainly no significant mechanic experience. Is it foolish to even consider attempting the rebuild myself? I have some shop space I could use, am known to be meticulous, clean, and patient. Said when I bought this rig I wanted to learn…kind of typical in my life and experience I jump right in the deep end. This is a little different though I guess since I believe there will be a substantial bit of my time and money riding the line and the decision. Feel free to weigh in! …either way I go about this I’ll also be looking to replace radiator, coolant system, turbo, and any thing else you recommend while going this deep to save my ol’ gal Delilah( 94 l300 p 35w w/~200k km and a huge piece of my heart)

Click to expand...

How bad is the blowby? Did they give you numbers? Also I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong) they diagnosed the head gasket with a block test for hydrocarbons which wouldn't necessarily rule out a cracked head (which is common). Personally, if I was hanging a new turbo and had a head gasket/potential cracked head (it really could be either until you get eyes on the head) and had excessive blowby I'd be super wary of a rebuild. Increasing boost pressure in a motor with serious blowby is no-no because you're just blowing all that boost through your crankcase and not building any more boost as all that compression is gone. I'd go full swap with a Hyundai crate motor at a shop that will warranty the part. Also the OEM Hyundai motors come with a new fuel pump, turbo, alternator, complete motor, and a bunch of other goodies and we've found them at our shop complete for about what it would cost to just hang the accessories. We're in Denver, CO feel free to DM me if you're in the area we've been getting motors in about a month from when you drop off to pick up.

I appreciate the feedback! I have a lot to consider and figure out with this. Most concerned about getting the best VALUE out of the time and money I will have to spend no matter which path forward I take. My main objective is spending the “smart money and time” and having as bomb proof a rig as I can afford. This is my one and only! Got some big dreams, but first a lot of work and learning

…have to carve out some time from work to navigate this whole shituation and will share more info and undoubtedly have plenty of ?’s. Stay tuned!

In the meantime, feel free to continue to chime in with your experiences and opinions. I know there is an incredible amount of knowledge and experience out there!!! Massive thanks and appreciation

B.Delica said:

How bad is the blowby? Did they give you numbers? Also I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong) they diagnosed the head gasket with a block test for hydrocarbons which wouldn't necessarily rule out a cracked head (which is common).

Click to expand...

I'd be very surprised if they measured the blowby with a flow meter; and (sadly) I'd be kind of surprised if they actually tested for the head gasket leak... and unless they are familiar with these motors, I'd be hesitant to trust an evaluation of "a lot of blow by."
IMO, if it's not pushing oil past the valve cover cap, minimal oil splashing out with the cap removed, and no notable smoke/oil out of the dipstick tube (stick pulled); then it's probably fine.

B.Delica said:

Increasing boost pressure in a motor with serious blowby is no-no because you're just blowing all that boost through your crankcase and not building any more boost as all that compression is gone.

Click to expand...

It sounded like the turbo replacement is preventative (I probably wouldn't)... and Increasing boost pressure compared to what? A few extra PSI air pressure doesn't really increase combustion pressure notably (in the thousands of PSI); it's not going to the crankcase. Now, if you increase boost and fuel over stock that will increase combustion pressures; and some of that increase will get to the crankcase.

I agree that the head needs checked for cracks when removed, and maybe do a compression test before pulling the head if concerned about the blow by (expecting at least one cylinder to read low due to the gasket). But I'm far from suggesting a new motor as the most sensible choice at this point; especially if comparing a DIY gasket replacement vs paid shop engine replacement.

sk66 said:

I'd be very surprised if they measured the blowby with a flow meter; and (sadly) I'd be kind of surprised if they actually tested for the head gasket leak... and unless they are familiar with these motors, I'd be hesitant to trust an evaluation of "a lot of blow by."
IMO, if it's not pushing oil past the valve cover cap, minimal oil splashing out with the cap removed, and no notable smoke/oil out of the dipstick tube (stick pulled); then it's probably fine.


It sounded like the turbo replacement is preventative (I probably wouldn't)... and Increasing boost pressure compared to what? A few extra PSI air pressure doesn't really increase combustion pressure notably (in the thousands of PSI); it's not going to the crankcase. Now, if you increase boost and fuel over stock that will increase combustion pressures; and some of that increase will get to the crankcase.

I agree that the head needs checked for cracks when removed, and maybe do a compression test before pulling the head if concerned about the blow by (expecting at least one cylinder to read low due to the gasket). But I'm far from suggesting a new motor as the most sensible choice at this point; especially if comparing a DIY gasket replacement vs paid shop engine replacement.

Click to expand...

In regards to the turbo I meant that if the motor has excessive blowby in the rings you're not going to see the uptick in power that you would normally get from a new/upgraded turbo as you're dropping all that compression past the pistons on the upstroke. If they're getting 60% blowby (which I see often, or worse) then they're losing more power from a worn motor than they would be getting from installing a new turbo. And compression on these motors at sea level should be in the 400's range if I'm remembering correctly, I'm less concerned about combustion pressure and more about compression as the issue is allowing air past the rings on the compression stroke which gives non favorable pressure in the cylinder when the fuel fires off resulting in unburnt fuel/poor power/etc.

And for the leakdown test being performed properly I couldn't speak to what they did at that particular shop. I would hope they tested it properly and got hard numbers for the wet/dry leakdown and compression tests to determine blowby/valve seats and didn't just pull the oil fill cap and go "it's windy up in here."

But as far as new motor goes, I'd want to know the condition of the cylinders and valves first, and if they're good then I'd absolutely just do the head gasket and inspect the head for cracks. If the cylinders are blowing by badly then I'd be wary of putting the time and money in to do a head/gasket if I already had a worn motor that may need replacement in the next couple months/years. That being said I'm coming from the perspective of working on them at the shop vs the DIY end, so I always lean towards the buy once cry once school of repair and we do have the equipment to do so. Take all I'm saying with a grain of salt, it would just suck to do a head gasket job only to have your motor still running weak after.

Also it's not like the car won't run with blowby, basically all of them are blowing by unless the motor's been replaced. I'm just trying to paint the full picture of things I'd be looking out for if I was getting into motor work.

Wow guys! Such a wealth of info here and really makes me aware of how little I actually know and understand about motors in general. This is why I’m here, well in truth I’m here bc I fell in love with a funky, Japanese diesel 4x4 rover and a dream was born. I am not shy when it comes to learning or putting the cart in front of the horse, although even that seems it would get me further down the road at the moment I also am not a quitter or scared to put in the hard miles to live the dreams I dream, BUT I do not live a life with a lot of excess time or money. Every minute and dollar is precious! So I am a measure twice cut once or “cry once” kind of guy mostly concerned about value. Value is a tricky formula though; it’s not just the variables of time and money but also knowledge and experience. I do plan to do some remote surf exploration from this rig one day and the ability to diagnose/repair things in the field will one day I’m sure prove invaluable. If I’ve learned anything along my growing number of trips around the sun is that you don’t have to do it all at once, or you can’t, shouldn’t, something like that…still figuring it out I guess, hahah. Anyway, we’re getting down to the brass tack being, does it make more sense for me to start this journey from a solid baseline(ie-new parts installed professionally) and learn while maintaining or do I jump right in bust knuckles, curse, drink a few beers, spend more time and dollars but come out of it filthy with knowledge and experience. I get the feeling a lot of you on this forum have already traversed a very similar path and I always feel hindsight is 20/20 or atleast a whole helluva lot clearer. So I’m Here, putting it out there and enjoying the responses and the Ride! When I feel ready I’ll swoop, until then I’ll stick with the leave no turn unstoned approach I appreciate ALL of the help and responses

As far as what was done at the shop, it was fairly basic I think. I know he initially thought it might have just been something with the turbo, well hoped so anyway. He did say the turbo although leaking a little oil seemed to be in decent shape. I’ll check in with him and get the specific tests he ran and results, etc. I do know we tested and confirmed exhaust gases out of the radiator. Although, that was pretty damn obvious! He is a great guy and I have been greasing his wheels with beer for a while now and I do trust him. He is self-admittedly not a Delica mechanic but loves(and hates) the rig I’m sure. He is a young guy from Japan and had some experience growing up and turning wrenches on one with his uncle. He is willing to help me in and out of the shop, so I am very fortunate there! I will report back and then plan to continue to do the testing and diagnostics to determine the breadth of this shituation. Stay tuned and thanks again!!

Got slammed with work and life again …I just shared your responses with my mechanic and will see what he says. Can you guys tell me what all tests you would run in order to get the best understanding of overall engine health, etc. Also, while I’m in it this deep I’d like to go ahead and do the same with the transmission and any other major systems. My goal is to get the ol’ gal as mechanically bomb proof as possible. Everything I touch I’d like to restore or improve and your suggestions, knowledge, and experience are incredibly valuable and appreciated. More concerned with efficiency and reliability over power and speed, obv if I can increase the latter without major loses than I’d be open to that. I do intend to eventually do a modest buildout once she is mechanically sound which is my specialty. I will be very conscious during that phase about weight. But first thing first, the floor is yours…

CaptDread said:

Can you guys tell me what all tests you would run in order to get the best understanding of overall engine health, etc.

Click to expand...

Going to be tough when you already know it at least has a gasket issue, but I would suggest compression/leakdown test on all cylinders... this is a good read about it.

CaptDread said:

Also, while I’m in it this deep I’d like to go ahead and do the same with the transmission and any other major systems.

Click to expand...

Doing the head gasket (or even replacing the engine) doesn't really involve any other major systems other than cooling; an upgraded radiator is worthwhile.
Otherwise I would just be looking at anything rubber (transmission/engine mounts, etc) and fluids... which should have been done all along.

sk66 said:

Going to be tough when you already know it at least has a gasket issue, but I would suggest compression/leakdown test on all cylinders... this is a good read about it.

Doing the head gasket (or even replacing the engine) doesn't really involve any other major systems other than cooling; an upgraded radiator is worthwhile.
Otherwise I would just be looking at anything rubber (transmission/engine mounts, etc) and fluids... which should have been done all along.

Click to expand...

Thank you! Going to owe you some beers or something at the end of this for sure!! That is def my style …New radiator is already planned. I realize the transmission and engine are separate systems, but figure while I’m going to be without a vehicle during these repairs I may as well take care of any other major projects during the down time. I did replace any of the bushings, rubber, etc that I saw or knew was bad and will continue to do so and manage fluids which I’m planning to flush and replace all of during this repair.

CaptDread said:

Thank you! Going to owe you some beers or something at the end of this for sure!! That is def my style …New radiator is already planned. I realize the transmission and engine are separate systems, but figure while I’m going to be without a vehicle during these repairs I may as well take care of any other major projects during the down time. I did replace any of the bushings, rubber, etc that I saw or knew was bad and will continue to do so and manage fluids which I’m planning to flush and replace all of during this repair.

Click to expand...

I realize I’m going to have to carve out more time from my insane work schedule to make this a priority and get my rig back back to reliable road warrior status!
Currently thinking to tackle the head gasket change myself while sourcing a new d4bf engine. The way I figure it, I can work on the engine I have now, replace what makes sense/needs to be replaced or repaired, do my best, and essentially dive into a crash course in 4d56T mechanics. The new engine could eventually supply new parts or be dropped in as an entire replacement if deemed necessary or the best path forward at that time. Either way I’d like to rebuild my existing engine for the experience alone, but then also to have as a potential spare. I want to to open the floor to those of you with a lot more mechanical experience to hear your thoughts, ideas, and opinions

…also while I’m doing the head gasket what else should I be planning to tackle; timing belt, water pump, fan clutch, …??? New radiator and hoses would be a def part of this plan as well