Steering shaft too short and looks sketchy. Trying to find solution.

[Gratty]

Hey Delica world,

I am looking for help with an issue related to a lift job on my L300. The van came with the lift job from Japan, and Delica USA, the importer I bought it from, has no info about the lift job.

The issue I am having is that 1). the steering shaft is worn with lots of play and needs to be replaced. 2) It is too short to begin with. You can see that the second set of bolts don't even recess behind the plate flange. It is a sketchy situation and I am having the damndest time finding a solution. I asked Delica USA if they have a steering shaft I could buy that would work. I bought on and they sent me one that is way too short also. So that was frustrating.

I've taken it to a few shops, and no solutions yet. Where I live there aren't any lift shops. One person suggested installing a thicker rubber rag joint disk.

Pictures of the steering shaft with the measuring tape is the one I bought from Delica USA that is too short
Pictures of the steering shaft on my van is the one that is also too short and has tons of play in the coupler joint (not sure of exact term for coupler joint??).

Thanks for any insights you all. may have.

 

[bikerjosh]

f you have a good one (albeit too short) I would just have a welder sleeve it to the length you need.

 

[sk66]

That's frightening!

 

[bikerjosh]

View attachment 26491
That's frightening!

Oh come on, looks like steering shaft has 1/16-1/8" of overlap to grip, should be fine. @OP, please list hwys you currently drive on so I may avoid. JK. Seriously though that is 'sus' as my 7 yo would say.

 

[Sputnik]

Curious what would cause this in the first place. Assuming original and replacement shafts are correct for the year/model (pre-lift) what's going on?

If the lift created distance between the undercarriage and steering wheel, which results in separation of the shaft, does anyone with a lift have a steering shaft waiting to pop apart or under tension? It would seem not, given how many Delicas are lifted a bit, and I've not heard of anyone having to mess with their steering linkages when they add a lift.

What amount of lift does it take to make this happen? It seems like it's too much if it's doing this, in which case OP might want to look at a lift reduction, because if this is happening (and was engineered so badly), what's going on elsewhere (like driveshaft to universal joint angles.)

Could reducing torsion bar tension bring the front end down enough to rectify the situation?

Could the lower linkages of the steering system be lifted/shimmed/adjusted to make up for the gap?

Extending the shaft solves the immediate problem, but doesn't really deal with why it happened in the first place, or any other issues related to a big lift.

Edit to add:

The collar around the spline area looks like it's been whacked to knock it back off the splined shaft. Is that big bolt supposed to go through the splined shaft or butt up to it (through it seems more likely), in which case can the front end be jacked up, the splined collar be reset and the bolt inserted properly? Would that put undue tension on the shaft or the bolt itself?

 

[NYCMIKADOZ]

Go to a welding shop or machine shop and have them lengthen it to what you need .Please post a picture of the Delica so we can determine the lift you have .There are kits offered by Delicaworksinternational or reach out to Evan Yelverton here or on facebook that drop the center diff and sub frame to keep the drives shaft angles where they should be - pix of the van dude

Curious what would cause this in the first place. Assuming original and replacement shafts are correct for the year/model (pre-lift) what's going on?

If the lift created distance between the undercarriage and steering wheel, which results in separation of the shaft, does anyone with a lift have a steering shaft waiting to pop apart or under tension? It would seem not, given how many Delicas are lifted a bit, and I've not heard of anyone having to mess with their steering linkages when they add a lift.

What amount of lift does it take to make this happen? It seems like it's too much if it's doing this, in which case OP might want to look at a lift reduction, because if this is happening (and was engineered so badly), what's going on elsewhere (like driveshaft to universal joint angles.)

Could reducing torsion bar tension bring the front end down enough to rectify the situation?

Could the lower linkages of the steering system be lifted/shimmed/adjusted to make up for the gap?

Extending the shaft solves the immediate problem, but doesn't really deal with why it happened in the first place, or any other issues related to a big lift.

Edit to add:

The collar around the spline area looks like it's been whacked to knock it back off the splined shaft. Is that big bolt supposed to go through the splined shaft or butt up to it (through it seems more likely), in which case can the front end be jacked up, the splined collar be reset and the bolt inserted properly? Would that put undue tension on the shaft or the bolt itself?

 

[Gratty]

Hey everyone! Thank you so much for these amazing replies! Incredible community here and so much intelligence. MANY THANKS!!!

Snow picture is with 2" lift
Other pic is from today, front is now at 1.5" (working on sealing off foot swamp issues)

Yes! The steering shaft 1/8" overlap is terrifying and very sus. The van came with that lift job from Japan. I recall it being a 2inch front and back lift, and yes a shitty a lift job from what mechanics have told me (I am not an auto whiz as much as most of you here). With the help of one mechanic we knocked the front down to 1.5inches to take stress off of the front end moving parts.

I am pretty committed to this van, and recently found a shop in Bellingham called Heavy Metal auto who focus on restoring vintage hot rods and big trucks. They seem perfect for a job like this, though may be pricey, but fuck it - worth it considering how much $$ I've dumped into this L300 already. I'm going to them first thing morning of April 18th. Will report back on what they say.

Ideally, they can fix the shaft length issue by welding in a collar, or like Sputnick said, probably dig deeper to find the root issue, which may lead to what NYCMIKADOZ said about sourcing a legit lift kit from Delica work International or Even Yelverton. I pretty much am going to give them free license to "Make this rig as good as you can" and will most likely return here to this forum to source any parts they need, like lift kit bits, etc.

The info you give helps keep my momentum in getting this rig rolling right.

Answer to NYCMIKADOZ's edit : about the collar + spline shaft. I don't think the collar bolt is supposed to go through the spline shaft. I think the purpose of the bolt it to pinch the splined shaft. My guess is that there are also recessed splines inside the collar that match the protruding splines on the shaft to prevent it from spinning even when cranked down / pinched down by the collar bolt. All in all, the spline shaft just needs to be ballzzzzz deep, not just the tip as they say.

 

[Sputnik]

Hey everyone! Thank you so much for these amazing replies! Incredible community here and so much intelligence. MANY THANKS!!!

Snow picture is with 2" lift
Other pic is from today, front is now at 1.5" (working on sealing off foot swamp issues)

Yes! The steering shaft 1/8" overlap is terrifying and very sus. The van came with that lift job from Japan. I recall it being a 2inch front and back lift, and yes a shitty a lift job from what mechanics have told me (I am not an auto whiz as much as most of you here). With the help of one mechanic we knocked the front down to 1.5inches to take stress off of the front end moving parts.

I am pretty committed to this van, and recently found a shop in Bellingham called Heavy Metal auto who focus on restoring vintage hot rods and big trucks. They seem perfect for a job like this, though may be pricey, but fuck it - worth it considering how much $$ I've dumped into this L300 already. I'm going to them first thing morning of April 18th. Will report back on what they say.

Ideally, they can fix the shaft length issue by welding in a collar, or like Sputnick said, probably dig deeper to find the root issue, which may lead to what NYCMIKADOZ said about sourcing a legit lift kit from Delica work International or Even Yelverton. I pretty much am going to give them free license to "Make this rig as good as you can" and will most likely return here to this forum to source any parts they need, like lift kit bits, etc.

The info you give helps keep my momentum in getting this rig rolling right.

Answer to NYCMIKADOZ's edit : about the collar + spline shaft. I don't think the collar bolt is supposed to go through the spline shaft. I think the purpose of the bolt it to pinch the splined shaft. My guess is that there are also recessed splines inside the collar that match the protruding splines on the shaft to prevent it from spinning even when cranked down / pinched down by the collar bolt. All in all, the spline shaft just needs to be ballzzzzz deep, not just the tip as they say.

Yeah, a 2" lift shouldn't be pulling the steering shaft apart. Usually a lift like that in an L300 uses ball joint spacers (I've also seen longnecked ball joints for this purpose). Additionally longer brake lines and longer shocks.

A 2" lift in the rear is accomplished with longer leaf spring shackles and shocks.

With a lift that small (and fairly common), I wonder if the splined shaft just slipped because it wasn't torqued properly and could be rectified by jacking up the diff zone and retorqueing?

Unlikely, but it also makes me wonder if something is amiss on the steering wheel end of things, like a spacer forcing the shaft to not be able to each to the splines area.

All that said, with a 2" lift you shouldn't need to be cutting and welding steering shafts...

 

[Sputnik]

Can we see a photo of your ball joints?

This is a guide to a 2" lift so you can see all the bits as they should be installed

2" SUSPENSION LIFT - Starwagon.info

This guide will give you the parts list to do the basic 2" lift on your Delica, using readily available parts, most of which are found on Amazon and Ebay!

starwagon.info

 

[Gratty]

Sputnik, thanks for the Beta. I will relay this info to Heavy Metal auto and report back. Good to hear your confirmation that a 2inch lift isn't absurd, nor should be causing this issue. Yeah, this steering issue has been scary and confusing and I am not knowledgeable enough to crack the code. All this info y'all are giving will be great clues for the pros when I meet with them on Thursday.

Here are more pics of the front end:

 

[sk66]

Here are more pics of the front end:

They used spacer blocks to drop the subframe/front axle; that's why the steering shaft is too short. Also, that looks like a true 2" lift.

What is often called a 2" lift is really only a 1" lift, and the front is accomplished by cranking the torsion bars and adding 25mm spacer blocks for the upper ball joints (or extended balljoints).. Adjusting the torsion bars gives the 1" lift by setting the suspension ride height higher; the spacers only allow the alignment to be corrected.

And that's about the limit of what the van can accept without getting into a bunch of other potential issues... e.g. watch out for the rear driveshaft angles and destroying/failing u-joints.

 

[Gratty]

Sk66, based on what you see going on with my van, can I buy a better lift kit for it? I like the 2inch lift, but it sounds like a 2" true lift is too much for the angles of everything. Are you saying that the better way to go is a 1" lift with 25mm spacers on upper ball joints, which equates to 2" when said and done?

 

[Sputnik]

They used spacer blocks to drop the subframe/front axle; that's why the steering shaft is too short. Also, that looks like a true 2" lift.

What is often called a 2" lift is really only a 1" lift, and the front is accomplished by cranking the torsion bars and adding 25mm spacer blocks for the upper ball joints (or extended balljoints).. Adjusting the torsion bars gives the 1" lift by setting the suspension ride height higher; the spacers only allow the alignment to be corrected.

And that's about the limit of what the van can accept without getting into a bunch of other potential issues... e.g. watch out for the rear driveshaft angles and destroying/failing u-joints.

Thank you for clarifying. I guess we're talking about the difference between a 2" 'suspension lift' and a 2" 'body lift'? I think the difference has not been clear to me until now.

After reading that starwagon link I posted earlier more carefully, he actually mentions the scenario that @Gratty is dealing with:

A 2″ lift is the most economical, as the lift can done with only spacers and shackles. Anything in between 2″ and 3″ will require dropping the front sub-frame and driveline with additional spacers. 3″ or greater will require a longer steering shaft in addition to larger sub-frame spacers and lift blocks or upgraded leaves.

 

[Gratty]

So, welding a sleeve into the steering shaft to extend it seems like the first step to alleviate the terrifying sketchiness I have going on.

 

[sk66]

Sk66, based on what you see going on with my van, can I buy a better lift kit for it? I like the 2inch lift, but it sounds like a 2" true lift is too much for the angles of everything. Are you saying that the better way to go is a 1" lift with 25mm spacers on upper ball joints, which equates to 2" when said and done?

A 2" lift kit is typically 2" extended shackles for the rear leaf springs which ends up being only 1" at the rear axle; it's only 1" all the way around. Often, it seems like the lift kits are mostly just correcting a worn out suspension and putting the ride height about where it's supposed to be. IMO, it's not generally worth it to go any higher than that... IMO it's barely worth doing it at all. There's very few times where 1" more clearance makes a big difference.

But if you want to go higher you can... there seem to be better designed kits out there; but I haven't looked into them in any detail to know if they address every issue. I do know you will pay quite a bit for it...

 

[sk66]

Thank you for clarifying. I guess we're talking about the difference between a 2" 'suspension lift' and a 2" 'body lift'? I think the difference has not been clear to me until now.

Yes, basically.
But IDK how you can drop the subframe/front axle at all without needing a longer steering shaft. You might not need it on flat roads, but at max suspension travel I think you would be beyond design limits (you might be able to relocate the bevel gearbox some?).

 

[sk66]

So, welding a sleeve into the steering shaft to extend it seems like the first step to alleviate the terrifying sketchiness I have going on.

I would be more inclined to remove the lift blocks, put things back to normal, and start over... or basically, park the thing and work out every possible issue; one of which is the steering shaft... there's plenty of others.

This is what happens when you lift the rear much without addressing the driveline angles. It's a very short driveshaft and relatively small changes to height make a big difference (especially at the limits of suspension travel). The u-joint has failed and taken out the fuel tank and transmission tail with it.

 

[Nenw]

This is the length of the steering shaft used on my 2” lift from dreamworks/t3.

The subframe spacers are 50cm tall. They along with Delicaworks sell their kits with extended shafts.

Mine was double jointed and shred in two. In a pinch we had to cut a stock one up and use the lower half to extend it.

I would recommend getting in touch with rio. He is parting out a van right now. Chop off the lower or upper portion extending it just a touch, sleeve and weld.

 

[Nenw]

A spacer kit is a legit kit, in fact if you want a lift it’s a much better way to go. The ride quality is much better as your suspension travel while on the road has equal travel up and down.

A ball joint spacer lift maxes out or close to maxes out your front travel while at ride height. Meaning the only direction your wheels can go are up, but not down. When they do go down, they are immediately at the bump stops and so you get much more uncontrolled feeling ride

The steering shaft length worries me that this person hadn’t done their due diligence on the lift so it would be worth going through and and checking things to ensure all is on the up and up

My suggestion would be the following

• Spacers - there should be 4 sets of spacers on the van to keep the drivetrain in alignment.
  • 2sets (4 total) at the subframe up front. These should be similar in height.
  • 1 set for the motor mounts.
  • One set for the transfer case.
• Bolt length. I would ensure these are all getting the correct amount of thread purchase. If you want to do the least amount, you can just check one bolt from each set of spacers. Just make sure that’s passing through all the threads on the body side.
  • subframe spacers - there is no need to put it on stands or a jack underneath or anything. The weight of the body holds everything in place. Just on the street pull a bolt out check it put a bolt back in.
  • For the motor mount and transfer case spacers I recommend putting a jack underneath to just help support the engine and transfer case when a bolt is removed. This way you can keep everything in alignment and reinstall without much hassle.
  • Check the rear drive shaft angle. This is a tricky one and I don’t have any really good insight on this for you because I struggle with this myself. Bad drivetrain angles can cause a vibration while you’re driving. This can blow out your seals overtime in both the differential and in the transfer case. DreamWorks provided shim with theirs. Delica works does not, but does use different height spacers. Keep in mind the Taiwanese vans have different rear differentials, and so their driveshaft lengths are different than ours.
• Ball joints - you should be running extended upper ball joints, or some sort of a spacer between the ball joint and upper control arm. Otherwise the angles are going to get crazy and you will chew through ball joints.
• Brake hose. - they should be lengthened that way when you’re at full extension, they are not binding up. The quick check for this is to just lift the van, the suspension droop and then look at your hoses and see what they’re doing
• Shocks - depending on the travel these will vary. You never want the shock being too long so as when the suspension is compressed, it stops on the shock rather than the bump stop. This is a little bit difficult to do. I can post up about this if you’re interested just let me know. I’m running late for work so I gotta get going.

I don’t think it’s necessarily worth getting a new lift if you can verify that it’s safe. Doing the checks might take you a couple hours. I’ve done the lift on my own @bikerjosh is doing one now. It’s not an easy thing to do on your own in the driveway.

 

[sk66]

A ball joint spacer lift maxes out or close to maxes out your front travel while at ride height. Meaning the only direction your wheels can go are up, but not down. When they do go down, they are immediately at the bump stops and so you get much more uncontrolled feeling ride

Just to clarify... it is cranking the torsion bars that causes this; the BJ spacers do not provide any lift, and you need them either way.