Purchasing a new engine

[ccmickelson]

Procedures for Importing Vehicles and Engines into the United States (EPA-420-B-10-027) :

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P10081IS.PDF?Dockey=P10081IS.PDF

If I'm interpreting it correctly, I believe this clause at the bottom of page 34 covers the issue:

● Mounting an engine in an existing LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or chassis-certified HDV that is certified violates the Clean Air Act unless the engine replacement is identical to the engine being replaced;

 

[natematos]

● Mounting an engine in an existing LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or chassis-certified HDV that is certified violates the Clean Air Act unless the engine replacement is identical to the engine being replaced;

I don't know how detailed this is, but the Hyundai engine is different than most L300 engines in that the Turbo is a coolant cooled design instead of oil. Is it a better/cleaner/more efficient design? Sure. But it may still cause a sticking point.

 

[Growlerbearnz]

The mechanic (owner of the local auto repair shop) said with a prybar he could move the crankshaft almost 1/2". I'm not a mechanic (except in my mind on really simple stuff), and I don't know what he was measuring, but seems to me that if there was that much play, everything inside the engine, connecting rods, etc. would be so far out of alignment, that damage would occur.

The pry bar is the traditional tool for checking crankshaft end play. 1/2" though- I don't see how that's physically possible. The thrust bearings are about 1/16" thick- even if they were both removed entirely, the crank would only move 1/8". And, as you say, at 1/2" all sorts of things would be hitting all sorts of other things.

The engine's not all that weird- it's just a normal engine with a couple of balance shafts (the same as many gasoline Mitsubishi engines).

 

[Growlerbearnz]

unless the engine replacement is identical to the engine being replaced;

Do they define "identical"? Here in NZ it means "uses the same mounting points, has the same bore and stroke, and makes no more than 20% more power". YMMV, and having dealt with the DMV (as an example of US govt. bureaucracy) I imagine they will fall back to "comes from the original manufacturer and has the original part number" :-(

 

[ccmickelson]

Do they define "identical"? Here in NZ it means "uses the same mounting points, has the same bore and stroke, and makes no more than 20% more power". YMMV, and having dealt with the DMV (as an example of US govt. bureaucracy) I imagine they will fall back to "comes from the original manufacturer and has the original part number" :-(

I hear ya, but there is a guy in CA who claims he's been selling this engine in the US for 25 years, and has several listings on ebay for this engine, and the guy from the Expedition Portal forum in Utah who had one shipped to his door, so it seems there must be a workaround.

 

[Growlerbearnz]

it seems there must be a workaround.

Import as a stationary (generator, pump, farm implement) engine, quietly install in wacky Japanese van, hope no-one notices? They are marketed as stationary engines in some places...

 

[natematos]

Import as a stationary (generator, pump, farm implement) engine, quietly install in wacky Japanese van, hope no-one notices? They are marketed as stationary engines in some places...

Import to Canada, drive across the border and rub grease on it to make it look used. Drive back down.

 

[Kellyn]

I hear ya, but there is a guy in CA who claims he's been selling this engine in the US for 25 years, and has several listings on ebay for this engine, and the guy from the Expedition Portal forum in Utah who had one shipped to his door, so it seems there must be a workaround.

Links?

 

[Kellyn]

If I can work the equivalence angle, I'll have a complete engine with alternator and IP sitting at port miami or port jacksonville FL for under 4,000 USD. I'm calling my customs broker tomorrow. Great job guys

 

[ccmickelson]

Links?

I included those links many posts back. ^^^^^^^

I emailed Hyundai Auto Tech (the engine division) directly through their website here:

http://www.hyundaiengine.com/other/catalog.html

...and got a speedy response from the Director of the division saying he could sell to me directly. I'm hoping this isn't some bogus site and I'm being scammed, but it seems pretty legit. I have also contacted an experienced customs/importation broker here in Albuquerque and will hopefully hear back tomorrow.
Anyhow, following is a copy of my email exchanges with Hyundai:

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "sales@hyundaiengine.com"
Cc: none
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 03:31:50 [KST +0900]
Subject: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Hello. I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, United States and I am interested in importing a Hyundai D4BF/4D56 engine directly from Hyundai Auto Tech. This is the engine listed on your website:
http://www.hyundaiengine.com/auto_diesel/05_d4bf.html

Can you tell me if this is possible? Thanks!

~ Casey Mickelson


From: Hyundai Power Plaza Co
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 5:58 PM
To: ccmickelson
Subject: RE:Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Dear Sir,

Thank you for inquiry. There is no problem to supply you Hyundai D4BF engine at all.

Please be advised of price as follows.

1. Engine Model : Hyundai D4BF engine (Part No : 20100-DU16)

2. Price
2.1 Engine Only :
a) USD 2,850.00/unit for one unit
b) USD 2,650.00/unit from 4 units
2.2 Option
a) Starter Motor : USD100.00/unit
b) Cooling Fan : USD 30.00/unit

3. Terms & Conditions
3.1 Price : US dollar based on FOB Korean Port
3.2 Payment : By T/T in advance
3.3 Delivery : 30days
3.4 Packing : Export standard packing (One unit by wooden box and 4 units by steel pallet)
3.5 Validity : Until the end of Dec. 2018

Best regards,

Wyman Lee
Director
Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "Hyundai Power Plaza Co"<hatcokr@naver.com>;
Cc:
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 11:10:06
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Thank you for the information. Have you exported these engines to the US previously? Are you aware of any importation restrictions? Thanks again.

~ Casey Mickelson

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Hyundai Power Plaza Co
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 7:43 PM
To: ccmickelson
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Dear Sir,

We have two customers for Hyundai engines in USA, one is in Seattle and other is in San Francisco now.

There is not any important restriction to import Hyundai engines but one of them asked us provide attached documents for custom's clearance because Hyundai D4BF engine is not certified with EPA.

We think that you can handle it with your broker.

Best regards,

Wyman Lee
Director
Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8899
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

(HE ACTUALLY ATTACHED PHOTOS OF THE US CUSTOMS DECLARATION FORMS TO THAT EMAIL. I TRIED TO UPLOAD THEM TO THIS POST BUT THE FILE WAS TOO LARGE)

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "Hyundai Power Plaza Co"<hatcokr@naver.com>;
Cc:
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 11:57:31
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Thank you again for your reply. So that I clearly understand this process…
I order and pay for the engine by bank transfer and then you ship it to me directly, but it will need to be handled by an importation broker at the port of entry in order to clear it with US customs. Is this correct?

Also, can you clarify what “engine only” includes? Will the engine be delivered with all of the components pictured in these photos?



Thanks again.

~ Casey Mickelson

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Hyundai Power Plaza Co
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 8:05 PM
To: ccmickelson
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Dear Sir,
There is no mistake in communication for importing process.
We mean that engine only is same as photo. There are no starter motor and cooling fan in photos.
Best regards,

Wyman Lee
Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "Hyundai Power Plaza Co"<hatcokr@naver.com>;
Cc:
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 12:53:50
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Ok, thank you again for your reply. I will proceed by discussing this transaction with an importation broker. The closest port of entry is in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so I would look at having the engine shipped to me through that port. Would this work? Also, can you provide me with a shipping estimate to Santa Fe, New Mexico, postal code 87501?

~ Casey Mickelson

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Dear Sir,

We will let you know estimated shipping cost from Korea to Albuqueque port tomorrow.

Best regards,

Wyman Lee

Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~estim2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

Fingers crossed...

 

[silverstate]

I included those links many posts back. ^^^^^^^

I emailed Hyundai Auto Tech (the engine division) directly through their website here:

http://www.hyundaiengine.com/other/catalog.html

...and got a speedy response from the Director of the division saying he could sell to me directly. I'm hoping this isn't some bogus site and I'm being scammed, but it seems pretty legit. I have also contacted an experienced customs/importation broker here in Albuquerque and will hopefully hear back tomorrow.
Anyhow, following is a copy of my email exchanges with Hyundai:

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "sales@hyundaiengine.com"
Cc: none
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 03:31:50 [KST +0900]
Subject: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Hello. I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico, United States and I am interested in importing a Hyundai D4BF/4D56 engine directly from Hyundai Auto Tech. This is the engine listed on your website:
http://www.hyundaiengine.com/auto_diesel/05_d4bf.html

Can you tell me if this is possible? Thanks!

~ Casey Mickelson


From: Hyundai Power Plaza Co
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 5:58 PM
To: ccmickelson
Subject: RE:Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Dear Sir,

Thank you for inquiry. There is no problem to supply you Hyundai D4BF engine at all.

Please be advised of price as follows.

1. Engine Model : Hyundai D4BF engine (Part No : 20100-DU16)

2. Price
2.1 Engine Only :
a) USD 2,850.00/unit for one unit
b) USD 2,650.00/unit from 4 units
2.2 Option
a) Starter Motor : USD100.00/unit
b) Cooling Fan : USD 30.00/unit

3. Terms & Conditions
3.1 Price : US dollar based on FOB Korean Port
3.2 Payment : By T/T in advance
3.3 Delivery : 30days
3.4 Packing : Export standard packing (One unit by wooden box and 4 units by steel pallet)
3.5 Validity : Until the end of Dec. 2018

Best regards,

Wyman Lee
Director
Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "Hyundai Power Plaza Co"<hatcokr@naver.com>;
Cc:
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 11:10:06
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Thank you for the information. Have you exported these engines to the US previously? Are you aware of any importation restrictions? Thanks again.

~ Casey Mickelson

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Hyundai Power Plaza Co
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 7:43 PM
To: ccmickelson
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Dear Sir,

We have two customers for Hyundai engines in USA, one is in Seattle and other is in San Francisco now.

There is not any important restriction to import Hyundai engines but one of them asked us provide attached documents for custom's clearance because Hyundai D4BF engine is not certified with EPA.

We think that you can handle it with your broker.

Best regards,

Wyman Lee
Director
Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8899
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

(HE ACTUALLY ATTACHED PHOTOS OF THE US CUSTOMS DECLARATION FORMS TO THAT EMAIL. I TRIED TO UPLOAD THEM TO THIS POST BUT THE FILE WAS TOO LARGE)

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "Hyundai Power Plaza Co"<hatcokr@naver.com>;
Cc:
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 11:57:31
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Thank you again for your reply. So that I clearly understand this process…
I order and pay for the engine by bank transfer and then you ship it to me directly, but it will need to be handled by an importation broker at the port of entry in order to clear it with US customs. Is this correct?

Also, can you clarify what “engine only” includes? Will the engine be delivered with all of the components pictured in these photos?

View attachment 1451View attachment 1452View attachment 1453

Thanks again.

~ Casey Mickelson

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Hyundai Power Plaza Co
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 8:05 PM
To: ccmickelson
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Dear Sir,
There is no mistake in communication for importing process.
We mean that engine only is same as photo. There are no starter motor and cooling fan in photos.
Best regards,

Wyman Lee
Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ccmickelson
To: "Hyundai Power Plaza Co"<hatcokr@naver.com>;
Cc:
Sent: 2018-11-27 (화) 12:53:50
Subject: RE: Importing D4BF/4D56 engine to USA

Ok, thank you again for your reply. I will proceed by discussing this transaction with an importation broker. The closest port of entry is in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so I would look at having the engine shipped to me through that port. Would this work? Also, can you provide me with a shipping estimate to Santa Fe, New Mexico, postal code 87501?

~ Casey Mickelson

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Dear Sir,

We will let you know estimated shipping cost from Korea to Albuqueque port tomorrow.

Best regards,

Wyman Lee

Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~estim2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

Fingers crossed...

So there's a discount for a 4+ order. Any thought to organizing a west coast group purchase. I'm in Reno, NV and I'd be interested.

 

[Growlerbearnz]

Well I'm just a tiny bit miffed. Let me take you back into the distant past of August 2016:

Hello,
I would like to purchase and import one of your D4BF engine modules to New Zealand. Do you sell directly? Do you arrange export, or will I need to find a shipping service?
Thank you!

Dear Sir
Thank you for inquiry
Please let us know how many units you want and why you need this engine.
Best regards
Wyman Lee

Good morning,
Thanks for your reply.
I only need one at this stage, it's to replace a 4D56 engine in a Mitsubishi L300 van.
Kind regards.

Dear sir
Is this for business or personal purpose?
Best regards
Wyman Lee

It's going in my work vehicle and my business is paying for it, so I'd say business purposes?
Though I'm not planning on selling the module to anyone else, so you might consider it personal use.

Dear sir
Thank you for reply.
We regret to inform you that we can not supply you module engine for personal purpose and min.order q'ty should be 3 units.
Your kind understanding would be much appreciated.
Best regards
Wyman Lee


Was it something I said?

 

[ccmickelson]

Well I'm just a tiny bit miffed. Let me take you back into the distant past of August 2016:

Hello,
I would like to purchase and import one of your D4BF engine modules to New Zealand. Do you sell directly? Do you arrange export, or will I need to find a shipping service?
Thank you!

Dear Sir
Thank you for inquiry
Please let us know how many units you want and why you need this engine.
Best regards
Wyman Lee

Good morning,
Thanks for your reply.
I only need one at this stage, it's to replace a 4D56 engine in a Mitsubishi L300 van.
Kind regards.

Dear sir
Is this for business or personal purpose?
Best regards
Wyman Lee

It's going in my work vehicle and my business is paying for it, so I'd say business purposes?
Though I'm not planning on selling the module to anyone else, so you might consider it personal use.

Dear sir
Thank you for reply.
We regret to inform you that we can not supply you module engine for personal purpose and min.order q'ty should be 3 units.
Your kind understanding would be much appreciated.
Best regards
Wyman Lee


Was it something I said?

Well, no offense but you are a Kiwi...


Received shipping quote:

Dear Sir,

Please be advised of estimated shipping cost as follows.

1. One Unit : USD140.00

2. 4 Units : USD384.00

3. Condition : From Busan Port, Korea to L.A Port, USA by ship and transfer to Albuquerque by train.

Best regards,

Wyman Lee

Hyundai Power Plaza Co.
Tel/Fax No : +82-55-366-8891~2/55-366-8893
M/Phone :+82-10-3781-7498
3, JUNAM SANDAN 4-RO, YANGSAN-SI, GYEONGSANGNAM-DO, 50522, REPUBLIC OF KOREA
E-mail : hatcokr@naver.com

$140 shipped from S. Korea to New Mexico? I can't understand how that's even possible. So...$2,990 plus brokerage fees, import duties, etc..
Yes, please.

 

[Kellyn]

There must be a pretty easy box to check on the customs form. My broker has been in business for 25 years but I bet she's never imported a single diesel engine for a customer. She's probably scarred from all of the people that call her trying to get skylines and Honda Civics that her default response now is "it's not going to work". I look forward to making progress on this. Thanks for all of the info, mickel!

 

[Growlerbearnz]

$140 shipped from S. Korea to New Mexico? I can't understand how that's even possible.

That price is triggering my "too good to be true" sense too.

 

[sk66]

If I can work the equivalence angle, I'll have a complete engine with alternator and IP sitting at port miami or port jacksonville FL for under 4,000 USD. I'm calling my customs broker tomorrow. Great job guys

The one Grant got was stamped on the block as a MMC 4D56; if they still are stamped/marked as 4D56 (and they almost certainly are) it would be hard to argue that it's not an appropriate/legal replacement. I don't think accessories count (i.e. starter/turbo/etc), and even if they do those items are removable/replaceable with original parts if absolutely necessary...

 

[sk66]

$140 shipped from S. Korea to New Mexico? I can't understand how that's even possible. So...$2,990 plus brokerage fees, import duties, etc..
Yes, please.

That's the going price for the same from Korea on Alibaba... I imagine Hyundai has a pretty well established shipping scheme for sending stuff to USA. I would guess the shipping price is slow boat to a port they are already using as part of a larger shipment.

 

[ccmickelson]

The one Grant got was stamped on the block as a MMC 4D56; if they still are stamped/marked as 4D56 (and they almost certainly are) it would be hard to argue that it's not an appropriate/legal replacement. I don't think accessories count (i.e. starter/turbo/etc), and even if they do those items are removable/replaceable with original parts if absolutely necessary...

I agree. This would really help seal the deal as far as meeting the EPA requirements for importation. I messaged the guy about confirming the "4D56" stamp on these blocks. I also inquired about the possibility and cost for air freight.

 

[ccmickelson]

If I calculated correctly, customs/import duties should be less than $100.

 

[sk66]

I also inquired about the possibility and cost for air freight.

Why???
That will be EXPENSIVE! I would rather buy a beater vehicle and run that for a while if necessary... but it wouldn't be. I don't think I would ever have a Delica as my only form of transportation.