Seeking Help - Trouble Starting

GTO-909

GTO-909

Member
Good day everyone!

NEED HELP - ADVICE - A STARTING POINT

DELICA NOT STARTING... NO CLICK; NO START; AIR IN FUEL LINE may NOT BE A CONTRIBUTOR

READ BELOW. Thanks in advance. I hope you can help me out.

I am searching for a starting point and maybe a solution to a current and new problem for me and my 1990 Delica Diesel. My Deli has not been starting. Not sure why exactly, except I no longer hear the click from the pump that must take place before turning and starting up the engine. I recently ran my Deli back and forth from work and got down to the E on the fuel tank... Although the last time I ran it low, I didn't run completely out of fuel. Thereafter, about a week or two later checked to see if it would start up after adding fuel from a reserve tank. No click, no start. Prior to all of this, and even when fully fueled, the click would not activate intermittently. The fuel pump was checked for any air - as was my biggest fear that air was in the fuel lines. I was able to do this with fuel immediately bleeding at the bleed site after pressing down on the pump. I am certain that air in the line is not a contributing problem. However, this is all new to me. I never had this problem before. Moreover, I am still not getting any click.
 
Three things might go "click":
1. The starter relay, though normally it's immediately followed by the sound of the starter and not heard separately.
2. The glowplug relay. Has nothing to do with the starter or the fuel pump, but this is the normal click you listen for when cold-starting: should click once when turning the key to ON, then a few seconds later it clicks again.
3. The fuel solenoid on the pump, powered whenever the ignition is ON, but normally too quiet to hear.

I assume you're referring to #2. If you aren't hearing the click, that means the glowplug relay isn't switching. Causes might be: bad relay, bad temperature switch, bad wiring, bad glowplugs, weak battery. Does the engine turn over when the key is at START? If not, the battery is weak and that might be all that's wrong. If yes, you've got some testing to do with a multimeter.
 
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95% the glow plug controller has failed. A quick test is to use a jumper cable (something quite heavy) to apply 12v battery to the glow plug bus bar for about 5 seconds. You can wire in a manual bypass if needed, and Daniel at w1ngselectronics.com can repair it for around $100... I'm assuming that the engine turns over when you attempt to start based upon the description.
 
Agreed with the other comments already. Here's my "diesel engine diagnosis" flow chart...

  1. Turn Key to start engine
  2. If engine starts, you're done!
  3. If engine turns over normally but doesn't start, then go to 12
  4. If engine doesn't turn over at all, check the battery voltage
  5. If the voltage is below 12-13v, then try using jumper cables and another battery to go back to #1 (Battery drained)
  6. If the voltage is above 12-13v, then measure voltage during cranking
  7. If the voltage while starting the engine drops below 9-10v then it's likely that you have a bad battery. Use jumper cables and got back to #1
  8. If the voltage doesn't drop at all while starting, then it's likely that you have a bad starter or starter relay\
  9. Using jumper cables, connect to the positive on the battery, and touch the positive on the starter
  10. If the starter turns, then likely have a bad starter relay. Replace it.
  11. If the starter doesn't turn, then like have a bad starter. Replace it.
  12. Do you hear a click when you turn the key to Run? This is the relay for your glow plugs.
  13. If there is not a click, then go to 20
  14. If there is a click, then measure the voltage at the glow plugs.
  15. If the voltage of the glowplugs is 6v or 12v (depending on your type of engine/glowplug/controller) , does it turn off after 10-20 seconds?
  16. If voltage does not turn off after a "significant" amount of time. Then it's likely that your glowplug relay(s) or controller is stuck ON or have you have a faulty manual glow plug switch. Repair the problem and then test your glowplugs. You may have damaged them.
  17. If voltage does stop after the "right" amount of time, is it VERY cold outside?
  18. If very cold, then maybe you need to "boost" your glow plugs longer. If you have a manual glow plug switch hold it longer. If not, use a jumper cable to connect the glowplug rail to the battery for 10-12 seconds and then try to start.
  19. If not very cold, then you probably have bad glow plugs. Replace them
  20. With your multimeter verify that you are are not getting voltage.
  21. If no voltage, use a jumper cable to connect the glowplug rail to the battery for 10-12 seconds and then try to start.
  22. If no clicks, but you have voltage and you can't start. Then I have no clue, post a message to DelicaForum? :p
 
moroza said:
Three things might go "click":
1. The starter relay, though normally it's immediately followed by the sound of the starter and not heard separately.
2. The glowplug relay. Has nothing to do with the starter or the fuel pump, but this is the normal click you listen for when cold-starting: should click once when turning the key to ON, then a few seconds later it clicks again.
3. The fuel solenoid on the pump, powered whenever the ignition is ON, but normally too quiet to hear.

I assume you're referring to #2. If you aren't hearing the click, that means the glowplug relay isn't switching. Causes might be: bad relay, bad temperature switch, bad wiring, bad glowplugs, weak battery. Does the engine turn over when the key is at START? If not, the battery is weak and that might be all that's wrong. If yes, you've got some testing to do with a multimeter.
Click to expand...

HAPPY 2020 EVERYONE!

Thanks to all for your responses... Please read each of my responses to each post. All your replies have been helpful and I appreciate each of you.

@moroza ... YES! Click #2 as you described.

@sk66 ... I'll check out the info you gave and the suggestion on how to troubleshoot. The engine does turn. Just no start. No click - as described by moroza above. It has to be the glowplug relay/controller.

@sck_nogas ... 1-3-12-13-20 ... I'm such a newbie to the Deli I'm not sure where the multimeter is or what it is. ,:D ... I'll have to try 21-22.

@Growlerbearnz ... Yes on the cranking and the Rrr Rrr Rrr noise and the engine wanting to start... No Brmmm brmmm as it would if it started. >>> In the situation of a gasoline vehicle (which my Deli is not - it is diesel) - It is like the gasoline pump in a gasoline engine is not giving some gas to fire the engine. Again, to be clear my Delica is a diesel engine - not gasoline. It is my first diesel vehicle ever. Any previous experience with any vehicle has always had a gasoline engine.

@Chris240sx1 ... Engine is cranking, but not starting.

I am hoping to get this small problem fixed so I can head up to Yosemite National Park at the end of February to catch Horsetail Falls light up (Firefalls season).
 
You've already confirmed that you have fuel at the filter, which is a good start, but before you go too far down the glow plug rabbit hole just check that you have fuel at the injectors (Second half of this post, the bit where you open the 17mm nuts on the injector pipes: https://delicaforum.com/index.php?threads/bleeding-the-fuel-lines.1041/).

If there's no fuel at the injectors when cranking, it's probably the fuel cutoff solenoid. Our engines are entirely mechanical, the only way to stop them is to physically shut off the fuel supply, which is done by the fuel shutoff solenoid (in red):

31336DSC06325.jpg

When the ignition is turned to ON the solenoid should have +12V power and make a click. The solenoid needs power to allow fuel to pass into the injection pump.

If it doesn't have +12V, try using a jumper lead to apply power directly to it from the battery- if the engine then starts, you have a wiring fault (probably the rectangualr connector on top of the IP, the wires get brittle and break internally)

If it has power but doesn't click, you'll need to remove it. It has a rubber tip that can get jammed, or it might just be burnt out.
 
Adding to @Growlerbearnz and answering the unanswered question...

A multimeter is a tool that can measure alternating current voltage and amperage, direct current voltage and amperage, and resistance. It is super handy when diagnosing things.

Like in @Growlerbearnz diagnostics, when he says measures 12v. You set the multimeter to 20v DC voltage and put the black wire on the body or battery (negative) and the red wire on the thing in red that you want to measure.

5a17ff98-6304-4e94-a4c4-f4a26f2df3c4.jpg

Here is one on Amazon for under $9 - WeePro Vpro850L Digital Multimeter DC AC Voltmeter, Ohm Volt Amp Test Meter, Electric Tester Ohmmeter with Diode and Continuity Detector, Backlit Display and Insulated Rubber Case Kickstand
 
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I had a similar problem to yours and it turned out to be the fuel cutoff solenoid. Mine had power and when I removed it and applied power it tested good so it must have been stuck. But I installed a new one anyway and haven't had any problems since.

It is a little tough to remove, it helps to have a crows foot wrench but I can't remember what size. Hope this helps.
 
If it were me, I'd replace the one-way solenoid with a two-way with manual override. Adds a little extra reliability in that a total loss of electrical power won't stop the engine, as well as the ability to manually open and shut the valve in case of wiring faults.
 
The support everyone is giving is the best I can ask for right now. Much appreciated. Please stick with the thread till I get my Deli running again.

Update - Taking a look at it today, here is what I see and my responses to each of everyone's reply:

@Growlerbearnz ... I will do my best to check the injectors. Locating the solenoid and the injectors was a task. It appears each are in a really tough spot to reach. Please verify my location of the solenoid by checking the picture below and noticed the highlighted portion. It had a lot of grime in the area and thus I had to wipe it over with a shop rag for it to be visible. Hopefully I got the location correct. Let me know.

... If I have the location correct, I don't see how I could place a jumper lead to it to test it because of its location - but I can get creative. It just wont be very easy. Moreover, just testing it with a multimeter might be tough also - yet, I don't give up easy. Lastly removing it to replace or check it will obviously be a dog of a task and will lead to more threads. Haha! I will also be checking out the thread you referenced about the fuel injectors.

IMG_2039-3.jpg

@sck_nogas ... Thanks for clarifying the multimeter. I clearly know what it is now. ,:D - And I'll be purchasing one soon. The picture really helped as well as describing how to test the solenoid.

@petie82 ... Glad you overcame a similar problem. I hope my situation will have the same ending result as yours when you encountered the problem with your solenoid. I got the crows foot wrench noted. Thank you for that tool tip and your reply. It makes me hopeful in getting my current problem resolved. Also, if I come across any part numbers for a solenoid that @moroza described, I'll post it.

@moroza ... That kind of solenoid with a manual override sounds like a great addition. If I need to replace my solenoid, perhaps I can score one of those. I'll let you know and if I find a part number I'll post it.

There is more delving into more info for me to do from past posts. At this point confirming location of possible problematic areas to troubleshoot is what I need to move onward. If anyone can verify, let me know. Going by the pic I posted, I hope I located the solenoid. Much thanks in advance.
 
I'm unaware of a Mitsubishi solenoid like that, but 90% or better odds that any other Bosch VE solenoid will work, and some of them have that feature. See here.
 
Hey guys, this thread is over the top with good info. I’m going to give this a good read and be very intentional running down these lists. Almost certain it will save my behind one of these days. Any way to pin something like this thread as a no start check list of sorts. Hold off asking the group until you’ve done abc?
 
Nenw said:
Hey guys, this thread is over the top with good info. I’m going to give this a good read and be very intentional running down these lists. Almost certain it will save my behind one of these days. Any way to pin something like this thread as a no start check list of sorts. Hold off asking the group until you’ve done abc?
Click to expand...
That's an interesting thought... Maybe a series of pages (like a wiki) of diagnosing issues... I like it!
 
sck_nogas said:
That's an interesting thought... Maybe a series of pages (like a wiki) of diagnosing issues... I like it!
Click to expand...
Hmmm, @Kellyn Wonder if we (you) could try something like VaultWiki for Xenforo? (Here's a demo of it)
I think the "Lite/Free" version features would be enough.

Was thinking of a page hierarchy like...
  • Diagnosis
    • Engine/Motor
      • Not Starting
        • Battery Ok
          • Starter Ok
            • Diesel
              • Identify glow plugs (what voltage and type to you have)
                • Voltage at glow plug Rail OK
                  • Check glowplugs
                • Voltage at glow plug rail is low
                  • Check glowplug resistance
                • Voltage at glow plug Rail is 0v
                  • Check relays
                  • Check controller
              • Check fuel filter/pump
              • Check IP
            • Gasoline
              • Check Fuel pump
      • Starting, but running roughly
    • Transmission/Drivetrain
      • Not able to shift into 4WD
      • Not able to shift into Reverse
    • Interior
      • Window not rolling down
      • Heater/AC Fan not blowing
      • CrystalLite Sun shade not working
    • Body
      • Rear hatch door sticking
  • Maintenance
    • Schedule
    • Oil & Filter Change
    • Air Filter Change
    • Windshield Wiper fluid
    • Replace Belts
  • Repair
    • Engine
      • Replace Battery
      • Replace Starter
      • Replace Starter Relay
      • Replace Glow Plugs
      • Replace Glow Plug Relay
    • Interior
      • Repair CrystalLite Sun Shade clip
So, if you were walking down the diagnosis pages, you can check one thing, depending on the outcome you go to the next page. Eventually, you keep testing each check until you end up at "Repair/Replace" ____ and then it points you to the steps to repair that thing.

Thoughts? And yes, I'm volunteering to put a lot of this together, since I'll use this to document what I need to remember. :p
 
Certainly some of this info can come directly from the repair manual. Probably don't need to reinvent all of it. I'm willing to lend a hand in some way, even if it's just to proof read the work. Let me know how I can assist.
 
In addition, it would be great to cover stuff like... Replacing sliding window seals, setting valve timing, etc... Stuff that doesn't really change... The manual does cover lots of stuff, but having the ability to add pictures and helpful hints / part numbers makes it much more valuable than the manual in and of itself...
 
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